Quick quiz for the baseball history buffs out there. Did you ever wonder how well the Negro League teams did against semi-pro teams? If the answer is “yes” then we have good news and bad news. First, the bad news: You’re a dork. Okay, that’s fine. So, what’s the good news, you ask? You’re amongst friends here. This is dork central, and as the king dorkmeister, I’ve spent a considerable amount of time thinking about the whole Negro League/semi-pro question. As a matter of fact, I’ve spent a considerable amount of time trying to dig up some answers.
My original plan was to write something elaborate about semi-pro ball pre World War II, trying to explain the quality of play and provide some evidence and theories, but I got distracted by some “Family Guy” reruns and shit-canned the whole exercise. Instead, I’ll just cut to the chase and slap you in the face with some numbers. I’ve got some strong opinions on this stuff, but I’m too lazy to share them. I’d love to hear what YOU think! Seriously, what do you make of this?
First of all, I found over 1300 games pitting Negro League teams against white semi-pro ballclubs. Okay, 1306 to be exact. Negro league teams won 76% of the games, by an average score of 6.33 to 3.30. For comparison, I found 342 games pitting white Major League teams versus many of the same white semi-pro teams. The white Major League teams won 81% of the contests, by an average score of 6.63 to 2.85.
Next, I found over 400 games with complete box scores and calculated some batting averages and junk. Just curious what an average Negro Leaguer hit versus semi-pros, and vice-versa. Then I tossed in the Major Leaguers. Here’s a spiffy chart, based what the average player’s performance would look like over the course of a 154-game season, based on actual honest-to-goodness statistics:
|
CATEGORY |
AVG |
AB |
H |
2B |
3B |
HR |
SB |
|
Neg v. Semi |
.299 |
648 |
194 |
31 |
9 |
9 |
19 |
|
Semi v. Neg |
.213 |
567 |
121 |
20 |
5 |
3 |
7 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
MLB v. Semi |
.294 |
564 |
166 |
36 |
4 |
5 |
* |
|
Semi v. MLB |
.209 |
570 |
119 |
20 |
3 |
3 |
* |
· haven’t had a chance to add the stolen bases for the Major League/semi-pro games yet.
Finally, I got all curious and wanted to know how some of the big namers would have fared over the course of 154 games versus semi-pros. These are cobbled together from pretty small samples (40-60 games per man), but its fun to see what emerges. To make things even more interesting, I’ve included Shoeless Joe Jackson’s prorated semi-pro stats from his 1923 tour with Waycross, GA, courtesy of the data published at www.blackbetsy.com.
I’m not saying any of this means anything yet. But for us baseball dorks, it’s fun to look at this stuff and think about new questions. Oh, and lots of caveats here, relating to era, context, etc., all of which I’ll ignore for now. Except for a one: Oscar Charleston. Most of his data is a combination of a) his early days with Indianapolis, when he was just getting started out, and b) from the 1930s with Pittsburgh- when he was fat and over the hill. I’m missing most of his prime.
|
PLAYER |
AVG |
AB |
H |
2B |
3B |
HR |
SB |
|
Josh Gibson |
.483 |
603 |
291 |
98 |
30 |
43 |
9 |
|
Cool Papa Bell |
.477 |
625 |
298 |
58 |
10 |
14 |
48 |
|
Joe Jackson |
.463 |
518 |
240 |
67 |
14 |
34 |
0 |
|
Jud Wilson |
.412 |
644 |
265 |
79 |
8 |
4 |
16 |
|
Buck Leonard |
.411 |
638 |
262 |
74 |
23 |
23 |
24 |
|
Oscar Charleston |
.351 |
630 |
221 |
30 |
13 |
13 |
20 |
|
John Beckwith |
.328 |
603 |
198 |
18 |
26 |
44 |
4 |
Okay, there’s seven players listed. Five are in the Hall of Fame. One would be if he didn’t help throw the 1919 World Series and the last guy, Beckwith, would have been elected if he’d been a nicer guy. Now remember, the average white Major Leaguer hit about .294 against top notch semi-pro competition, with Negro Leaguers coming in at about .299 during the same era.
Does the difference in at bats over 154 games between the ML and NL players indicate that MLB players walked a lot more?
David: Great question. The bad news is I don’t know the answer off the top of my head. The good news is: I’m willing to go back through the boxes and tally the walks. Check back in a couple days and you’ll have an answer!!
I don’t think that NELers walked all that much; Pete Hill excepted. But I am willing to have my mind changed.
Scott,
Just wanted to say that this work you’re doing is fantastic.
Thanks, and I’m looking forward to more.
Matthew Namee
Thanks for stopping by, Matthew. I really appreciate it.
None of us were around to comment on the officiating of these games either. I would not be surprised if the tie went to the white player in these games and if the strike zone was also called differently.
The majority of the time, umpires were white in these interracial battles. I’ve got a number of game stories (especially in Chicago) where Rube Foster threatened to pull his team off the field and possibly sacrifice his gate receipts because he believed he was getting the shaft by the umpiring crew. If they did take slightly fewer bases on balls, the fear of not getting a call most certainly played a role.
Great research Scott! So I gather from this article that the Negro league players (while very good) were not that much better than MLB?
Most people think Gibson would have hit 80 HR to Ruth’s 60, and we will never know. But after looking at your research I’m not so sure anymore. I think the top 10 Negro players would have been top MLB players, but probably in the same class as Babe, Williams, etc
I think Gibson would have had a difficult time hitting 35-to-40, to be honest with you. After all, he played catcher in Griffith Stadium! He was durable, but wouldn’t have played more than 135 games, and Griffith was a HUGE ballpark. That being said, if he moved to first base (stayed healthy for 150+ games) and played in Fenway- he would have challenged the Home Run records of Ruth and Foxx. There is actually a small community of neanderthals who still can’t grasp the concept that these guys were MLB worthy. The quest for rational discussion has been hurt by some on the other side of the aisle, who claim somebody like Josh would have hit 80 homers! The truth is somewhere in the middle, and I’ve spent the past couple years of my life trying to dust it off. Bottom line: The top black players were clearly the equal of the top white athletes.
Great stuff, Scott. One question: do you think Joe Jackson faced lower quality semipro teams than anyone else on this list, at least post-1920? Many teams refused to play against Black Sox players, or were pressured to refuse. I can’t remember offhand any of the major Negro League teams playing against them, for example; and the same might be true of the biggest white semipro clubs in Chicago or NY.
Ah, didn’t see that the Joe Jackson stats were all from Georgia & north Florida. It seems pretty likely he faced weaker opposition than everyone else here.
Jackson played in South Carolina and Georgia and I am completely ignorant about the quality of semi-pro ball in the south. What I DO know is his teammates were quality ballplayers. Almost everybody on his roster had minor league experience. I lumped Jackson in with the Negro Leaguers as a conversation starter, not necessarily an apples-to-apples comparison. To that end, I’d love to hear from somebody who knows about the history of semi-pro ball in Dixie land.